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If a character with the Alert feat rolls a crit fail on their Perception check, are they surprised?

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12

$begingroup$

A Druid in my campaign has the Alert feat, which stops her from being surprised.

If she rolls a critical failure on her Perception check, would:

1. She get surprised because she crit-failed?




2. The Alert feat negate that?

I'm leaning more toward it's "up to the DM," but I wanted to get a second perspective on this.

dnd-5e feats skills critical-fail

share|improve this question

edited Mar 24 at 20:32

V2Blast

30.2k5110183

asked Mar 24 at 17:19

tbrotbro

614

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
  $endgroup$
  – V2Blast
  Mar 24 at 20:36
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Possible duplicate of Is a critical failure on a natural 1 a rule or house rule?
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  Mar 24 at 20:39
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  see also rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/93831 , rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/135860
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  Mar 24 at 20:41
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @enkryptor Don't think it's a dupe, this one has the feat as an added consideration.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  Mar 24 at 21:04
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @KorvinStarmast the feat is irrelevant. The question basically asks "does the feat beat crit fail", but there is no such thing as "crit fail" in 5e. This would be valid for any "does X beat crit fail" question.
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  Mar 25 at 9:21
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 1 more comment

12

$begingroup$

A Druid in my campaign has the Alert feat, which stops her from being surprised.

If she rolls a critical failure on her Perception check, would:

1. She get surprised because she crit-failed?




2. The Alert feat negate that?

I'm leaning more toward it's "up to the DM," but I wanted to get a second perspective on this.

dnd-5e feats skills critical-fail

share|improve this question

edited Mar 24 at 20:32

V2Blast

30.2k5110183

asked Mar 24 at 17:19

tbrotbro

614

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
  $endgroup$
  – V2Blast
  Mar 24 at 20:36
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Possible duplicate of Is a critical failure on a natural 1 a rule or house rule?
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  Mar 24 at 20:39
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  see also rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/93831 , rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/135860
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  Mar 24 at 20:41
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @enkryptor Don't think it's a dupe, this one has the feat as an added consideration.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  Mar 24 at 21:04
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @KorvinStarmast the feat is irrelevant. The question basically asks "does the feat beat crit fail", but there is no such thing as "crit fail" in 5e. This would be valid for any "does X beat crit fail" question.
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  Mar 25 at 9:21
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 1 more comment

$begingroup$

A Druid in my campaign has the Alert feat, which stops her from being surprised.

If she rolls a critical failure on her Perception check, would:

1. She get surprised because she crit-failed?




2. The Alert feat negate that?

I'm leaning more toward it's "up to the DM," but I wanted to get a second perspective on this.

dnd-5e feats skills critical-fail

share|improve this question

edited Mar 24 at 20:32

V2Blast

30.2k5110183

asked Mar 24 at 17:19

tbrotbro

614

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited Mar 24 at 20:32

V2Blast

30.2k5110183

asked Mar 24 at 17:19

tbrotbro

614

share|improve this question

edited Mar 24 at 20:32

V2Blast

30.2k5110183

asked Mar 24 at 17:19

tbrotbro

614

edited Mar 24 at 20:32

V2Blast

30.2k5110183

edited Mar 24 at 20:32

V2Blast

30.2k5110183

asked Mar 24 at 17:19

tbrotbro

614

asked Mar 24 at 17:19

tbrotbro

614

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

43

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited Mar 25 at 13:50

KorvinStarmast

87.2k22283470

answered Mar 24 at 17:27

Blake SteelBlake Steel

4,90611156

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Crit fails (and successes) are also for death saves.
  $endgroup$
  – Nacht
  Mar 25 at 0:02
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Nacht I added your point in as a note. Blake, I hope you approve. If not, by all means revert.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  Mar 25 at 13:50
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Personally, I feel that " critical failures are only for attack rolls." should be the main point here, as it resolves any other confusion.
  $endgroup$
  – goodguy5
  Mar 25 at 13:54
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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43

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited Mar 25 at 13:50

KorvinStarmast

87.2k22283470

answered Mar 24 at 17:27

Blake SteelBlake Steel

4,90611156

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Crit fails (and successes) are also for death saves.
  $endgroup$
  – Nacht
  Mar 25 at 0:02
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Nacht I added your point in as a note. Blake, I hope you approve. If not, by all means revert.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  Mar 25 at 13:50
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Personally, I feel that " critical failures are only for attack rolls." should be the main point here, as it resolves any other confusion.
  $endgroup$
  – goodguy5
  Mar 25 at 13:54
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

43

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited Mar 25 at 13:50

KorvinStarmast

87.2k22283470

answered Mar 24 at 17:27

Blake SteelBlake Steel

4,90611156

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Crit fails (and successes) are also for death saves.
  $endgroup$
  – Nacht
  Mar 25 at 0:02
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Nacht I added your point in as a note. Blake, I hope you approve. If not, by all means revert.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  Mar 25 at 13:50
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Personally, I feel that " critical failures are only for attack rolls." should be the main point here, as it resolves any other confusion.
  $endgroup$
  – goodguy5
  Mar 25 at 13:54
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited Mar 25 at 13:50

KorvinStarmast

87.2k22283470

answered Mar 24 at 17:27

Blake SteelBlake Steel

4,90611156

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited Mar 25 at 13:50

KorvinStarmast

87.2k22283470

answered Mar 24 at 17:27

Blake SteelBlake Steel

4,90611156

edited Mar 25 at 13:50

KorvinStarmast

87.2k22283470

edited Mar 25 at 13:50

KorvinStarmast

87.2k22283470

answered Mar 24 at 17:27

Blake SteelBlake Steel

4,90611156

answered Mar 24 at 17:27

Blake SteelBlake Steel

4,90611156