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What is the English pronunciation of "pain au chocolat"?
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What is the English pronunciation of “pain au chocolat”?
Why do British people pronounce “Ibiza” as “Ibitha”?Pronunciation of GUI in British EnglishAmericans stereotype Canadian pronunciation of “about”?How did the pronunciation of the word “derby” evolve?Pronunciation of “twenty” in US EnglishThe pronunciation of ending “s”Pronunciation of luxury'Controversy' PronunciationWhat is the English pronunciation of “nougat”?Pronunciation of Middle EnglishAmerican pronunciation of Versailles
9
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
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|
show 9 more comments
9
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
22
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
yesterday
6
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
yesterday
2
It depends where you're standing. If you're standing in Bordeaux, it's 'Chocolatine'.
– Strawberry
21 hours ago
5
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
4
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
20 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
9
9
9
1
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
edited 16 hours ago
L. F.
1054
1054
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
asked yesterday
arisaris
14914
14914
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
22
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
yesterday
6
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
yesterday
2
It depends where you're standing. If you're standing in Bordeaux, it's 'Chocolatine'.
– Strawberry
21 hours ago
5
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
4
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
20 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
22
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
yesterday
6
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
yesterday
2
It depends where you're standing. If you're standing in Bordeaux, it's 'Chocolatine'.
– Strawberry
21 hours ago
5
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
4
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
20 hours ago
22
22
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
yesterday
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
yesterday
6
6
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
yesterday
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
yesterday
2
2
It depends where you're standing. If you're standing in Bordeaux, it's 'Chocolatine'.
– Strawberry
21 hours ago
It depends where you're standing. If you're standing in Bordeaux, it's 'Chocolatine'.
– Strawberry
21 hours ago
5
5
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
4
4
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
20 hours ago
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
20 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
17
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
38
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
23 hours ago
16
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
22 hours ago
22
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
22 hours ago
12
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
20 hours ago
7
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
17 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
14
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
17 hours ago
4
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
15 hours ago
You'd think English speakers never take French lessons. I had them at school from age 10 in 1962 (it was standard in the UK) and university and I was once immensely flattered by a French lady on a train who asked if I was Swiss. One secondary-school teacher was very hot on pronunciation.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
5
Maybe it's the ones who can't pronounce croissant who voted 'leave'.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
After I have had a couple of drinks, I am confident enough to try my impression of a Perpignan accent.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
add a comment |
5
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
15 hours ago
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
13 hours ago
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
1
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
17
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
38
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
23 hours ago
16
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
22 hours ago
22
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
22 hours ago
12
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
20 hours ago
7
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
17 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
17
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
38
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
23 hours ago
16
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
22 hours ago
22
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
22 hours ago
12
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
20 hours ago
7
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
17 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
17
17
17
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
edited 10 hours ago
wjandrea
1258
1258
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
answered yesterday
MintyMinty
3365
3365
38
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
23 hours ago
16
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
22 hours ago
22
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
22 hours ago
12
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
20 hours ago
7
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
17 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
38
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
23 hours ago
16
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
22 hours ago
22
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
22 hours ago
12
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
20 hours ago
7
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
17 hours ago
38
38
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
23 hours ago
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
23 hours ago
16
16
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
22 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
22 hours ago
22
22
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
22 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
22 hours ago
12
12
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
20 hours ago
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
20 hours ago
7
7
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
17 hours ago
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
17 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
14
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
17 hours ago
4
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
15 hours ago
You'd think English speakers never take French lessons. I had them at school from age 10 in 1962 (it was standard in the UK) and university and I was once immensely flattered by a French lady on a train who asked if I was Swiss. One secondary-school teacher was very hot on pronunciation.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
5
Maybe it's the ones who can't pronounce croissant who voted 'leave'.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
After I have had a couple of drinks, I am confident enough to try my impression of a Perpignan accent.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
add a comment |
14
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
17 hours ago
4
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
15 hours ago
You'd think English speakers never take French lessons. I had them at school from age 10 in 1962 (it was standard in the UK) and university and I was once immensely flattered by a French lady on a train who asked if I was Swiss. One secondary-school teacher was very hot on pronunciation.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
5
Maybe it's the ones who can't pronounce croissant who voted 'leave'.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
After I have had a couple of drinks, I am confident enough to try my impression of a Perpignan accent.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
add a comment |
14
14
14
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
answered 22 hours ago
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
84947
84947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
17 hours ago
4
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
15 hours ago
You'd think English speakers never take French lessons. I had them at school from age 10 in 1962 (it was standard in the UK) and university and I was once immensely flattered by a French lady on a train who asked if I was Swiss. One secondary-school teacher was very hot on pronunciation.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
5
Maybe it's the ones who can't pronounce croissant who voted 'leave'.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
After I have had a couple of drinks, I am confident enough to try my impression of a Perpignan accent.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
add a comment |
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
17 hours ago
4
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
15 hours ago
You'd think English speakers never take French lessons. I had them at school from age 10 in 1962 (it was standard in the UK) and university and I was once immensely flattered by a French lady on a train who asked if I was Swiss. One secondary-school teacher was very hot on pronunciation.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
5
Maybe it's the ones who can't pronounce croissant who voted 'leave'.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
After I have had a couple of drinks, I am confident enough to try my impression of a Perpignan accent.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
17 hours ago
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
17 hours ago
4
4
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
15 hours ago
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
15 hours ago
You'd think English speakers never take French lessons. I had them at school from age 10 in 1962 (it was standard in the UK) and university and I was once immensely flattered by a French lady on a train who asked if I was Swiss. One secondary-school teacher was very hot on pronunciation.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
You'd think English speakers never take French lessons. I had them at school from age 10 in 1962 (it was standard in the UK) and university and I was once immensely flattered by a French lady on a train who asked if I was Swiss. One secondary-school teacher was very hot on pronunciation.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
5
5
Maybe it's the ones who can't pronounce croissant who voted 'leave'.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
Maybe it's the ones who can't pronounce croissant who voted 'leave'.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
After I have had a couple of drinks, I am confident enough to try my impression of a Perpignan accent.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
After I have had a couple of drinks, I am confident enough to try my impression of a Perpignan accent.
– Michael Harvey
9 hours ago
add a comment |
5
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
15 hours ago
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
13 hours ago
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
1
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
5
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
15 hours ago
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
13 hours ago
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
1
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
5
5
5
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
edited 8 hours ago
psmears
13.1k14658
13.1k14658
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
answered 16 hours ago
NicolasNicolas
512
512
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
15 hours ago
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
13 hours ago
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
1
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
15 hours ago
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
13 hours ago
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
1
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
2
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
15 hours ago
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
15 hours ago
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
13 hours ago
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
13 hours ago
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
13 hours ago
1
1
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
aris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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22
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
yesterday
6
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
yesterday
2
It depends where you're standing. If you're standing in Bordeaux, it's 'Chocolatine'.
– Strawberry
21 hours ago
5
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
4
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
20 hours ago